For any of these things to work it needs more than 1 or 2 years.
This will Fail ….should have kept Dorsey we never learn
Real quick, and just for fun. I did a comparison. A comparison about the other most hated Browns owner Art Modell. Maybe for fun you can look up other important facts about the 2. And relay them. But here's to get you started. And remember the line between the Courtier, and Julius in remember the Titans? Attitude, reflects leadership. Leadership at the top. Jimmy. The other spectrum is Analytics. I suggest watching a clip from North Dallas forty where the Great Matuszak tells a coach about analytics. YouTube it, its called its a sport, not a business. I know youll enjoy it. NOW, REAL QUICK IN THE FIRST 8 YEARS BETWEEN THE 2 OWNERS. Art had 2 head coaches, one being Paul Brown in which he fired, but only 2. Jimmy? 7 head coaches. GMs? I didnt look up. Arts record was 84-38. Jimmys 21-75-1. 3 games a year??? Art made the playoffs 5 times winning it all in 64. Jimmy? Nada. The 6-10 record from last year was Jimmys second best season ever. and he fired the Coach and GM? Jimmy in my book has past Art , Art wanted a stadium, thats all. Jimmy has one. Art lost money as a business man. Jimmy stole money as a business man. The Browns are doomed because? attitude reflects leadership. He dont care if he wins, he gets a nice Revenue check every year, and he knows dumb ass Browns fans. Us! will always support this team. I dont feel like a fan anymore. I feel like a unhappy customer, not getting what I paid for. If we are gonna support the Browns, and This idiot Jimmy? We have to forgive Art. As painful as that maybe!
Objective view… but berry won’t last he will be the fall guy! In haslam we trust
We keep doing the same stupid thing. To wit, after a year or two we fire our management team and bring in a whole new set of characters. The new management/coaching hires promptly create a bunch of roster holes by trading or releasing the predecessor regimes high draft choices because they in no way want to win with their predecessor's players. So talented guys like Danny Shelton, Joe Hadyn, Jason McCourty, Demario Davis, Mitchell Schwartz, Pierre Desir, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Mike Adams, Tashaun Gibson, and Alex Mack to name but a few are either released, traded or allowed to walk away for nothing near equivalent fair value received in return.
This happens in spite of the fact that Cleveland G.Ms and coaches inevitably come into a situation where there are already plenty of gaping roster holes that need their more immediate attention. In part it's a matter of ego. They want to win with their guys and only their guys, so if they just filled the holes and started winning, they simply would not be satisfied or feel they had done enough to write their own ticket. And that, of course, is their number one goal.
The other part of the equation is their unwillingness to spend even a nickel more for talent than what they believe to be that talented player's market value to be. So if they have a player who they think is making "too much money" they willingly replace that excellent-competent player with a replacement level guy scrub, even though the organization is nowhere near bumping up against their cap space and the roster is severely dalent deficient to start with.
And of course they sell it as realigning the organization along the lines of "their vision".
Inevitably this means an utterly horrible first year because the roster has been stripped of whatever talent it had when they came in. The second year is bound to be an improvement because some high draft choices and free agent signing occur, and everyone then takes a bow proclaims the Browns are "aligned, and on the right track". This usually buys all but the most incompetent management team a third year. And usually that's where the roof falls in because the roster is simply not that talented, and the management/coaching team is simply not talented enough to stock and coach up such a depleted roster to playoff level with 2-3 years of drafts and free agent signings.
Whereupon, the now old management team is replaced, and the factory of sadness starts another production run. This cycle has happen 6-7 times since 1999.
That's why next to impossible to be a Browns fan or to believe in any Browns management/coaching team. Every one of them will play the same cynical game, and put the same crappy product on the playing field. They will, however, be at least $40 million under the salary cap. Guaranteed.
Greedy Williams a home run? Were we watching the same player?
great take as always love the work you put in.
What a joke, I don't forsee anything good or positive about this.
He passed on Mahomes.
SI just had an awesome article on Andrew Berry. Look it up guys, really good stuff on what we might expect from the guy and separating him a bit from all the bad in that 1/31 era. Here's to hoping that we all look back on this hire as the single best thing that ever happened to the Cleveland Browns. Go Browns!
Joe Schoebert is a solid LB and smart player, how can you value him so low?
That Vernon trade is still of the the dumbest moves. Traded a pro bowl lineman when we had a 2nd year QB for a defensive lineman that we didn’t need. For why Dorsey?
I don't care who they hire. How these newbs handle the draft will tell you more. The glaring hole is the O-line and DBs, maybe a backup QB. Give Baker some competition back there! And ultimately none of this matters until they hit the turf on game #1. We clearly know pre-season means jack in CLE.
Berry was in his 20’s when he started that 1-31 stretch, have some faith
Schobert is a top quality MLB imo
to expound on the baseball analogy, we need someone to hit for average, not power.
It’s Paul. Not John
I think it is a good hire, i hope he does well. He played role in getting Nick Chubb, and Miles Garrett. I am glad they are aligned. I think if the Browns could now go for some stability and build out the rest of the team
I like it cause one thing you cant say about that regime is that they didnt have us in a great place under the cap. They made it to where Jon Dorsey could make all the moves he made.
Olivier if you're listening, I hope you're renting. 😂😂😂 Savage.
I can’t help but feel like here we go again. Same old browns bullshit.
Why can you literally tell everybody you are no longer a fan and still be taken seriously? Anyway, I am out for good, good luck, sir.
The Browns are a clown show. Until the Haslams sell the team we're screwed
I’m giving this guy a chance. Same with Kevin Stefanski. This upcoming season is going to define the Cleveland Browns for years to come. For all we know, Berry and Stefanski could be with the Browns for years to come, possibly 10 years, fingers crossed. They’re two young guys who have a lot to prove and in time, could prove their doubters wrong. But we’ll see how this plays out.
"John depodesta" lol
Welcome to the dumpster 🔥
Quincy, I believe you are wrong. The Browns didn't FIRE Andrew Berry last year! He was taken away from them via a promotion at the Eagles.
I think the Browns were seriously considering hiring George Paton but Paton took out his name from consideration and I would’ve done the same thing due to the Browns’ history of lack of patience and numerous head coaching/general manager changes.
My only issue is the recurring thought that I have always had since the Haslam’s arrived. When will Jimmy learn? Too often the Browns fan base has the pendulum to both of his extremes. His purchase of the franchise is him being awarded Ernest & Youngs Entrepreneur of the Year and his continued tinkering of drafting Johnny Manziel is also paying some $92 – $97M in fines in Federal Court is the other extreme. Like you stated before Quincy, he’s a bad owner. Can Kevin Stefanski be our Chuck Noll to Art Rooney’s nearly 50 years of bad ownership? Or Sean Peyton’s White Knighted turnaround of the Saints? Are we asking for too much? No we’re not. We are due.
I think it's a positive hire… The colts always had good players and the browns started getting pretty good players after they tanked for two years. IDK who picked who, but I have no problem with this guy getting the job.
There are zero cons to this move. It is an absolutely great hire! Reason for me saying this is because this fully exposes Depodesta. He no longer has the excuse of not having the regime in place he wants, so if this fails completely, then his firing should also follow suit. This is exactly what needed to happen to either allow analytics to work or if you have it falls flat on his face, then get out of Cleveland.
Vernon is a headache…read some of the stories that came out of NY….Dorseys big con is he brought a lot of divas and headaches to the roster, well on top of vouching for Freddie.
Get a o-line pay Vernon and get some DBs
Your point around 11:25 that Andrew Berry will need to "hit doubles and not homers" actually plays in the favor of the Browns' analytics approach. Hitting homers (to follow the analogy) results in a lot more striking out than hitting doubles does. Statistically the Browns should be able to have a very "safe" draft in 2020 and be reasonably assured they will come up with a lot of quality players. I like it.
Great info as usual. But didn’t like the monotone delivery. Plus think the audio was a lil off. But again like your take and info on our Brownies.
We needed and players wanted experienced leadership. I am hopeful but not impressed what so ever with GM and HC.
I’m not excited about nun of this bs I think we are screwed and I hope I’m wrong, I’m hanging on by a thread
By far one of your best works you broke it down perfectly all he has to do is find players that can play their role this team would be ok
For any of these things to work it needs more than 1 or 2 years.
This will Fail ….should have kept Dorsey we never learn
Real quick, and just for fun. I did a comparison. A comparison about the other most hated Browns owner Art Modell. Maybe for fun you can look up other important facts about the 2. And relay them. But here's to get you started. And remember the line between the Courtier, and Julius in remember the Titans? Attitude, reflects leadership. Leadership at the top. Jimmy. The other spectrum is Analytics. I suggest watching a clip from North Dallas forty where the Great Matuszak tells a coach about analytics. YouTube it, its called its a sport, not a business. I know youll enjoy it. NOW, REAL QUICK IN THE FIRST 8 YEARS BETWEEN THE 2 OWNERS. Art had 2 head coaches, one being Paul Brown in which he fired, but only 2. Jimmy? 7 head coaches. GMs? I didnt look up. Arts record was 84-38. Jimmys 21-75-1. 3 games a year??? Art made the playoffs 5 times winning it all in 64. Jimmy? Nada. The 6-10 record from last year was Jimmys second best season ever. and he fired the Coach and GM? Jimmy in my book has past Art , Art wanted a stadium, thats all. Jimmy has one. Art lost money as a business man. Jimmy stole money as a business man. The Browns are doomed because? attitude reflects leadership. He dont care if he wins, he gets a nice Revenue check every year, and he knows dumb ass Browns fans. Us! will always support this team. I dont feel like a fan anymore. I feel like a unhappy customer, not getting what I paid for. If we are gonna support the Browns, and This idiot Jimmy? We have to forgive Art. As painful as that maybe!
Objective view… but berry won’t last he will be the fall guy! In haslam we trust
We keep doing the same stupid thing. To wit, after a year or two we fire our management team and bring in a whole new set of characters. The new management/coaching hires promptly create a bunch of roster holes by trading or releasing the predecessor regimes high draft choices because they in no way want to win with their predecessor's players. So talented guys like Danny Shelton, Joe Hadyn, Jason McCourty, Demario Davis, Mitchell Schwartz, Pierre Desir, Jabaal Sheard, TJ Ward, Mike Adams, Tashaun Gibson, and Alex Mack to name but a few are either released, traded or allowed to walk away for nothing near equivalent fair value received in return.
This happens in spite of the fact that Cleveland G.Ms and coaches inevitably come into a situation where there are already plenty of gaping roster holes that need their more immediate attention. In part it's a matter of ego. They want to win with their guys and only their guys, so if they just filled the holes and started winning, they simply would not be satisfied or feel they had done enough to write their own ticket. And that, of course, is their number one goal.
The other part of the equation is their unwillingness to spend even a nickel more for talent than what they believe to be that talented player's market value to be. So if they have a player who they think is making "too much money" they willingly replace that excellent-competent player with a replacement level guy scrub, even though the organization is nowhere near bumping up against their cap space and the roster is severely dalent deficient to start with.
And of course they sell it as realigning the organization along the lines of "their vision".
Inevitably this means an utterly horrible first year because the roster has been stripped of whatever talent it had when they came in. The second year is bound to be an improvement because some high draft choices and free agent signing occur, and everyone then takes a bow proclaims the Browns are "aligned, and on the right track". This usually buys all but the most incompetent management team a third year. And usually that's where the roof falls in because the roster is simply not that talented, and the management/coaching team is simply not talented enough to stock and coach up such a depleted roster to playoff level with 2-3 years of drafts and free agent signings.
Whereupon, the now old management team is replaced, and the factory of sadness starts another production run. This cycle has happen 6-7 times since 1999.
That's why next to impossible to be a Browns fan or to believe in any Browns management/coaching team. Every one of them will play the same cynical game, and put the same crappy product on the playing field. They will, however, be at least $40 million under the salary cap. Guaranteed.
Greedy Williams a home run? Were we watching the same player?
great take as always love the work you put in.
What a joke, I don't forsee anything good or positive about this.
He passed on Mahomes.
SI just had an awesome article on Andrew Berry. Look it up guys, really good stuff on what we might expect from the guy and separating him a bit from all the bad in that 1/31 era.
Here's to hoping that we all look back on this hire as the single best thing that ever happened to the Cleveland Browns. Go Browns!
Joe Schoebert is a solid LB and smart player, how can you value him so low?
That Vernon trade is still of the the dumbest moves. Traded a pro bowl lineman when we had a 2nd year QB for a defensive lineman that we didn’t need. For why Dorsey?
I don't care who they hire. How these newbs handle the draft will tell you more. The glaring hole is the O-line and DBs, maybe a backup QB. Give Baker some competition back there! And ultimately none of this matters until they hit the turf on game #1. We clearly know pre-season means jack in CLE.
Berry was in his 20’s when he started that 1-31 stretch, have some faith
Schobert is a top quality MLB imo
to expound on the baseball analogy, we need someone to hit for average, not power.
It’s Paul. Not John
I think it is a good hire, i hope he does well. He played role in getting Nick Chubb, and Miles Garrett. I am glad they are aligned. I think if the Browns could now go for some stability and build out the rest of the team
I like it cause one thing you cant say about that regime is that they didnt have us in a great place under the cap. They made it to where Jon Dorsey could make all the moves he made.
Olivier if you're listening, I hope you're renting. 😂😂😂 Savage.
I can’t help but feel like here we go again. Same old browns bullshit.
Why can you literally tell everybody you are no longer a fan and still be taken seriously? Anyway, I am out for good, good luck, sir.
The Browns are a clown show. Until the Haslams sell the team we're screwed
I’m giving this guy a chance. Same with Kevin Stefanski. This upcoming season is going to define the Cleveland Browns for years to come. For all we know, Berry and Stefanski could be with the Browns for years to come, possibly 10 years, fingers crossed. They’re two young guys who have a lot to prove and in time, could prove their doubters wrong. But we’ll see how this plays out.
"John depodesta" lol
Welcome to the dumpster 🔥
Quincy, I believe you are wrong. The Browns didn't FIRE Andrew Berry last year! He was taken away from them via a promotion at the Eagles.
I think the Browns were seriously considering hiring George Paton but Paton took out his name from consideration and I would’ve done the same thing due to the Browns’ history of lack of patience and numerous head coaching/general manager changes.
My only issue is the recurring thought that I have always had since the Haslam’s arrived. When will Jimmy learn? Too often the Browns fan base has the pendulum to both of his extremes. His purchase of the franchise is him being awarded Ernest & Youngs Entrepreneur of the Year and his continued tinkering of drafting Johnny Manziel is also paying some $92 – $97M in fines in Federal Court is the other extreme. Like you stated before Quincy, he’s a bad owner. Can Kevin Stefanski be our Chuck Noll to Art Rooney’s nearly 50 years of bad ownership? Or Sean Peyton’s White Knighted turnaround of the Saints? Are we asking for too much? No we’re not. We are due.
I think it's a positive hire… The colts always had good players and the browns started getting pretty good players after they tanked for two years. IDK who picked who, but I have no problem with this guy getting the job.
There are zero cons to this move. It is an absolutely great hire! Reason for me saying this is because this fully exposes Depodesta. He no longer has the excuse of not having the regime in place he wants, so if this fails completely, then his firing should also follow suit. This is exactly what needed to happen to either allow analytics to work or if you have it falls flat on his face, then get out of Cleveland.
Vernon is a headache…read some of the stories that came out of NY….Dorseys big con is he brought a lot of divas and headaches to the roster, well on top of vouching for Freddie.
Get a o-line pay Vernon and get some DBs
Your point around 11:25 that Andrew Berry will need to "hit doubles and not homers" actually plays in the favor of the Browns' analytics approach. Hitting homers (to follow the analogy) results in a lot more striking out than hitting doubles does. Statistically the Browns should be able to have a very "safe" draft in 2020 and be reasonably assured they will come up with a lot of quality players. I like it.
Great info as usual. But didn’t like the monotone delivery. Plus think the audio was a lil off. But again like your take and info on our Brownies.
We needed and players wanted experienced leadership. I am hopeful but not impressed what so ever with GM and HC.
I’m not excited about nun of this bs I think we are screwed and I hope I’m wrong, I’m hanging on by a thread
By far one of your best works you broke it down perfectly all he has to do is find players that can play their role this team would be ok