The End of Normal – Part 2: Conversation with John Doyle of EU Foresight Group
Again, the title ‘The End of Normal’ says it all. The current #COVID-19 #pandemic has changed civilization, and in many ways, there is no going back, as hard as …
Why not talk more about concrete solutions like much more investment in renewable energy and hydrogen storage? And more and better public transport and maybe even electric cars? Why only antitechnological rhetoric? I do not disagree completely, but the letter/pamphlet is not more than that, not really a great leap forward for a foresight thinker. Back to nature is impossible with 7 and soon 10 billion people. Less meat, ok, less air travel, ok, less cars, ok, but HOW? And how do we take care of the rest of the world population, who were "hungry" or at least at very low levels of subsistence even before corona? How do we give them a piece of the cake?
I understand the sentiment being conveyed but I have 3 questions; (1) Is this a prediction of what is going to happen or a hope/wish? (2) We currently have almost 8 billion people on earth – how many human do you see on earth by the end of this century? (3) Do you think the virus changes eating patterns away from meat in the Western or do you think this happen globally?
How are think tanks funded and how are people chosen to be on them? Do they have the finger on the pulse of humanity? Is it troubleshooting for developed economies to the exclusion of developing economies? Lots of questions.
I worked in a grocery store. I was the guy at the register or the guy who brought out the groceries or cleaned up the restrooms. Basically when I was working at a grocery store, I did everything except back talk the manager. LOL
The most important subject in our World, today, and only 9k views. Even I get caught up in the day-to-day, but I get around to it.
yes, a trade agreement between the planet and us. The planet looks after us and we it. Once we start to break the agreement nature will warn us, then if not… shock & awe !!!
B.C. = Before Coronavirus 2020 = year ZERO
Let’s hope the virus causes large-scale human infertility to stop the incessant breeding and prevent repopulation after the cull.
Great discussion.
The problem with human expansion is the mentality that all before us is a barrier to our well being. That is a purely capitalist marketing ploy. And it has been in effect since the '80s after big oil realised that their product was causing problems. They hushed it up using venal government subjects to placate their respective parliaments with fears of an oil-free world. The irony, of course, is that everyone would suffer should they continue their production of the myriad poisons they need to shop simply to increase their own asset portfolio's. Assets they will use to survive the cataclysm they have knowingly created. Human nature as it is isn't a problem. It's the greedy manipulators that are the issue.
The solutions to all the worlds problems can be found in nature. Thanks John for your honesty about your privilege. Remain humble my friend.
Our civilization is so fucking done. I hate the fact that my parents gave birth to me; it’s as if they’ve doomed me to a planet in decline. I wish I could just die right now. I can’t accept the future
Assuming a vaccine can be found, what happens when the anti vaxxers refuse to be inoculated against Covid 19?
great talk .
" … still has a niche for humans…" Humans are the virus that mother Earth is testing.
We’ve always known that if we didn’t solve our ecological problems ourselves, nature would solve them for us.
Great, great video! If that is true and we never return to the past normal allowing/forcing us to transition, it would be such a great outcome from such a tragedy. It would made all that pain and suffering more "meaningful". Certainly better a pandemic, or a series of them, to thrust the world into a new economic and world orders that a world war.
Interesting talk. If this is anywhere near mainstream in Europe, it makes me jealous. Here in the USA, we are adopting a "survival-of-the-fittest, BAU-at-any-cost" approach partly by default, and partly by intention. The Trump Administration has openly promoted the idea of just letting C-19 "wash over" the population and take who it will. If it kills lots of elderly people and people with medical conditions, bonus! We can cut Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare and use the savings to provide a new capital gains tax cut or the like. To get the holy Economy (profits be upon its Invisible Hand) going again, naturally. We have people with guns storming our state legislatures demanding that we get people Back to Work [whipcrack!]. And if it kills the elderly and infirm, and more people of color and poor than white and wealthy, that's a feature not a bug, from the perspective of US elites and decision-makers.
Yesterday, Trump was babbling something about there being "too much testing" for the virus. Presumably, if we are even vaguely aware of how many people have it and how many people are dying from it, then people might demand that government do something effective. That runs counter to the predominant US narrative about government at least since Reagan ("government isn't the solution, it's the problem"). It seems incredibly unlikely to me that the US would adopt any of the prescriptions offered here, except maybe for a few regions.
BTW, what is the source for the claim that C-19 (and/or C-20, C-21, and so on) will be with us permanently, and represents a possible cause of human extinction? To my knowledge, viruses tend to evolve toward lower lethality over time, since lethality impedes a virus' chances of spreading. While there will surely be other pandemics, especially if large-scale global travel and trade continue, future pandemics will have different characteristics, and (my guess) probably won't be as perfectly optimized for infectiousness as C-19 is, unless there is some form of intelligence (bio-lab conspiracy, Gaia, or something/someone else) directing them. Maybe if Gaia could invent a virus that precision-targets the rich and powerful…
Heavy flour and sugar and carbs is what has created the metabolic diseases that is overtaking the planet and the people so challenged are the most susceptible to this disease and are dying…not the meat eaters.
The vegan diet being healthier is B.S.. Many traditional societies ate little plant based foods (Bushmen of the Kalahari, Inuit in the Arctic). Our brains evolved to require animal or fish proteins/fats (tryptophan, Omega 3 fats). Increasing starch is bad for health! I will argue without fish or meat, we will increase in mental disorders/illnesses, (something we are seeing a record of since the vegan craze began-our brains are starved). What we need to do is eat LESS meat, and eat wild or organically raised animals and stop poisoning our plants and insects. Sorry, I do not agree with veganism, or even vegetarianism.
Great video. So grateful to find likeminded, intelligent people. Time is short, sadly.
Interesting, informative and alarming. However, Why have Stuart Scott on if you're going to monopolise the entire conversation? There were a number of occasions where Stuart wanted to comment only for you to rudely interrupt him or ignore him entirely.
To quote from Dr. Knut Wittowoski, epidemiologist. ' There is a pandemic every year and it is called influenza!
My neighbor and I are getting chickens (for eggs, not for meat)! I am excited. . .
where can I read a copy of Doyle's email?
Stuart, great work and another excellent discussion between you and John in this video and Part 1. I love the perspective that the virus itself shall force us to change when nothing else had. 'Gaia's Revenge,' to quote James Lovelock.
You want to destroy the livestock industry? What do these farmers do?
Omg the way you just tried to say the selfish gene, it's nothing to do with selfishness, read it ffs
I felt this to my bones and then the core of my soul, as right. Thank you for sharing your intelligent/wise discussion.
The mutual nature of life is true. But how can it evolve if the thing it lives on wasn’t there??
I'm so excited now, to know that their are people like John Doyle working within the European mechanisms, and with such insights and visions of the possibilities of our future society. I agree wholeheartedly with the ideas of Localisation, our basic Needs (not consumerist wants), and a return to Nature. Imagine if all the people who are not working, or now unemployed, refused to go back, refused to return to the slavery of the system – this would be a great step toward to the above ideas. Thank you Stuart for your channel.
Totally agree and Dr. McDougall is the best. He helped me a lot to improve my health, all through watching YouTube videos.
On the topic of keeping electronic devices from becoming obsolete, a big chunk of the problem is the proprietary software model – it prevents end-users having any control over what runs on their devices. The Free Software movement (where Free refers to one's liberty to use/study/modify/share) has been advocating and creating non-proprietary software since around 1984. I've been running GNU/Linux (a non-proprietary Operating System) on my computers since 1998 and I love it 🙂 Some links to info: https://www.gnu.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement (There is an effort to provide non-proprietary Operating Systems for phones and tablets as well as regular PCs, but it's hindered by laws that allow manufacturers to "lock" their devices and prevent reverse engineering. If manufacturers were obliged to allow users to install alternative Operating Systems, devices could be kept useful and out of landfills for much much longer.)
Missing you lately Stuart.
Why not talk more about concrete solutions like much more investment in renewable energy and hydrogen storage? And more and better public transport and maybe even electric cars? Why only antitechnological rhetoric? I do not disagree completely, but the letter/pamphlet is not more than that, not really a great leap forward for a foresight thinker. Back to nature is impossible with 7 and soon 10 billion people. Less meat, ok, less air travel, ok, less cars, ok, but HOW? And how do we take care of the rest of the world population, who were "hungry" or at least at very low levels of subsistence even before corona? How do we give them a piece of the cake?
I understand the sentiment being conveyed but I have 3 questions;
(1) Is this a prediction of what is going to happen or a hope/wish?
(2) We currently have almost 8 billion people on earth – how many human do you see on earth by the end of this century?
(3) Do you think the virus changes eating patterns away from meat in the Western or do you think this happen globally?
How are think tanks funded and how are people chosen to be on them? Do they have the finger on the pulse of humanity? Is it troubleshooting for developed economies to the exclusion of developing economies? Lots of questions.
I worked in a grocery store. I was the guy at the register or the guy who brought out the groceries or cleaned up the restrooms. Basically when I was working at a grocery store, I did everything except back talk the manager. LOL
The most important subject in our World, today, and only 9k views. Even I get caught up in the day-to-day, but I get around to it.
yes, a trade agreement between the planet and us. The planet looks after us and we it. Once we start to break the agreement nature will warn us, then if not… shock & awe !!!
B.C. = Before Coronavirus
2020 = year ZERO
Let’s hope the virus causes large-scale human infertility to stop the incessant breeding and prevent repopulation after the cull.
Great discussion.
The problem with human expansion is the mentality that all before us is a barrier to our well being. That is a purely capitalist marketing ploy. And it has been in effect since the '80s after big oil realised that their product was causing problems. They hushed it up using venal government subjects to placate their respective parliaments with fears of an oil-free world. The irony, of course, is that everyone would suffer should they continue their production of the myriad poisons they need to shop simply to increase their own asset portfolio's. Assets they will use to survive the cataclysm they have knowingly created. Human nature as it is isn't a problem. It's the greedy manipulators that are the issue.
The solutions to all the worlds problems can be found in nature. Thanks John for your honesty about your privilege. Remain humble my friend.
Our civilization is so fucking done. I hate the fact that my parents gave birth to me; it’s as if they’ve doomed me to a planet in decline. I wish I could just die right now. I can’t accept the future
Assuming a vaccine can be found, what happens when the anti vaxxers refuse to be inoculated against Covid 19?
great talk .
" … still has a niche for humans…" Humans are the virus that mother Earth is testing.
We’ve always known that if we didn’t solve our ecological problems ourselves, nature would solve them for us.
Great, great video! If that is true and we never return to the past normal allowing/forcing us to transition, it would be such a great outcome from such a tragedy. It would made all that pain and suffering more "meaningful". Certainly better a pandemic, or a series of them, to thrust the world into a new economic and world orders that a world war.
Interesting talk. If this is anywhere near mainstream in Europe, it makes me jealous. Here in the USA, we are adopting a "survival-of-the-fittest, BAU-at-any-cost" approach partly by default, and partly by intention. The Trump Administration has openly promoted the idea of just letting C-19 "wash over" the population and take who it will. If it kills lots of elderly people and people with medical conditions, bonus! We can cut Social Security, Medicare, and Obamacare and use the savings to provide a new capital gains tax cut or the like. To get the holy Economy (profits be upon its Invisible Hand) going again, naturally. We have people with guns storming our state legislatures demanding that we get people Back to Work [whipcrack!]. And if it kills the elderly and infirm, and more people of color and poor than white and wealthy, that's a feature not a bug, from the perspective of US elites and decision-makers.
Yesterday, Trump was babbling something about there being "too much testing" for the virus. Presumably, if we are even vaguely aware of how many people have it and how many people are dying from it, then people might demand that government do something effective. That runs counter to the predominant US narrative about government at least since Reagan ("government isn't the solution, it's the problem"). It seems incredibly unlikely to me that the US would adopt any of the prescriptions offered here, except maybe for a few regions.
BTW, what is the source for the claim that C-19 (and/or C-20, C-21, and so on) will be with us permanently, and represents a possible cause of human extinction? To my knowledge, viruses tend to evolve toward lower lethality over time, since lethality impedes a virus' chances of spreading. While there will surely be other pandemics, especially if large-scale global travel and trade continue, future pandemics will have different characteristics, and (my guess) probably won't be as perfectly optimized for infectiousness as C-19 is, unless there is some form of intelligence (bio-lab conspiracy, Gaia, or something/someone else) directing them. Maybe if Gaia could invent a virus that precision-targets the rich and powerful…
Heavy flour and sugar and carbs is what has created the metabolic diseases that is overtaking the planet and the people so challenged are the most susceptible to this disease and are dying…not the meat eaters.
The vegan diet being healthier is B.S.. Many traditional societies ate little plant based foods (Bushmen of the Kalahari, Inuit in the Arctic). Our brains evolved to require animal or fish proteins/fats (tryptophan, Omega 3 fats). Increasing starch is bad for health! I will argue without fish or meat, we will increase in mental disorders/illnesses, (something we are seeing a record of since the vegan craze began-our brains are starved). What we need to do is eat LESS meat, and eat wild or organically raised animals and stop poisoning our plants and insects. Sorry, I do not agree with veganism, or even vegetarianism.
Great video. So grateful to find likeminded, intelligent people. Time is short, sadly.
Interesting, informative and alarming. However, Why have Stuart Scott on if you're going to monopolise the entire conversation? There were a number of occasions where Stuart wanted to comment only for you to rudely interrupt him or ignore him entirely.
To quote from Dr. Knut Wittowoski, epidemiologist. ' There is a pandemic every year and it is called influenza!
My neighbor and I are getting chickens (for eggs, not for meat)! I am excited. . .
where can I read a copy of Doyle's email?
Stuart, great work and another excellent discussion between you and John in this video and Part 1. I love the perspective that the virus itself shall force us to change when nothing else had. 'Gaia's Revenge,' to quote James Lovelock.
You want to destroy the livestock industry? What do these farmers do?
Omg the way you just tried to say the selfish gene, it's nothing to do with selfishness, read it ffs
I felt this to my bones and then the core of my soul, as right. Thank you for sharing your intelligent/wise discussion.
The mutual nature of life is true. But how can it evolve if the thing it lives on wasn’t there??
I'm so excited now, to know that their are people like John Doyle working within the European mechanisms, and with such insights and visions of the possibilities of our future society. I agree wholeheartedly with the ideas of Localisation, our basic Needs (not consumerist wants), and a return to Nature. Imagine if all the people who are not working, or now unemployed, refused to go back, refused to return to the slavery of the system – this would be a great step toward to the above ideas.
Thank you Stuart for your channel.
Totally agree and Dr. McDougall is the best. He helped me a lot to improve my health, all through watching YouTube videos.
On the topic of keeping electronic devices from becoming obsolete, a big chunk of the problem is the proprietary software model – it prevents end-users having any control over what runs on their devices. The Free Software movement (where Free refers to one's liberty to use/study/modify/share) has been advocating and creating non-proprietary software since around 1984. I've been running GNU/Linux (a non-proprietary Operating System) on my computers since 1998 and I love it 🙂
Some links to info:
https://www.gnu.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software_movement
(There is an effort to provide non-proprietary Operating Systems for phones and tablets as well as regular PCs, but it's hindered by laws that allow manufacturers to "lock" their devices and prevent reverse engineering. If manufacturers were obliged to allow users to install alternative Operating Systems, devices could be kept useful and out of landfills for much much longer.)